Talk:Shockwave
Scions I've removed the comment about the Scions' attack as it doesn't have much in common with Shockwave at all. About the only similarity is that both abilities travel in an intermittent path along the ground. The Biotic Shockwave is more of a crowd control skill than anything else, while the Scions' attack deals heavy damage and prevents shields and health from regenerating for a significant amount of time. I've seen plenty of guides and forum posts about the Scions' "shockwave" attack, but I feel like it's an inaccurate name. Has Bioware ever officially called the Scions' attack a shockwave? The codex http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Aliens:_Non-Sapient_Creatures#Husks:_Scions refers to it as more of a warp effect: "The weapon creates a powerful warp effect..." I propose modifying the Scion page to remove references to Shockwave. [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 05:16, September 30, 2010 (UTC) :However it doesn't say it is the same, but similar and I really fail to see why this content was removed. They are similar in that they can damage multiple squad members at the same time, had all three knocked out of cover before with one blast multiple times. Shockwave also damages shields, barriers, and armor and knocks players and squad members back. The two things have many things in common and I also see that the Codex is providing support for it becuase Warp and Shockwave both prevent shield/barrier regeneration and have similar effects. As such I'm readding the content becuase I fail to see why it was removed in the first place when they have many things in common. Lancer1289 05:25, September 30, 2010 (UTC) ::Let me point out the differences. I doubt I'll be able to change your mind, but it's worth a shot. The Biotic Shockwave doesn't deal much damage at all. The Scion attack deals heavy damage. The Biotic Shockwave hits enemies regardless of cover. The Scion attack cannot hit people in cover. The Biotic Shockwave does not prevent regeneration when used against Shepard (when it is used by the Shadow Broker's Assassin in Lair of the Shadow Broker). Nor does it prevent life regeneration when used against Vorcha or Krogan, although I don't think this is a completely fair comparison because enemy regeneration is handled differently than player regeneration. The Scion attack prevents regeneration for a time when striking Shepard or a member of Shepard's squad. The Biotic Shockwave is a pale blue. The Scion attack has splashes of darker colors giving it a corrupted look. The Biotic Shockwave and Scion attack have different sound effects and different areas of effect. The Biotic Shockwave will stagger protected enemies and knock undefended enemies around. Although there are no abilities designed to ragdoll Shepard and his squad in ME2, the Scion attack will not trigger a stagger effect. Please point out to me in the codex where it says that Warp and Shockwave affect Barrier regeneration and have similar effects. According to the codex, Shockwave would probably fall under the Telekinesis branch of Biotics, while Warp is clearly under Distortion. On lower difficulties, the Biotic Shockwave might seem like it deals impressive damage and then I can see why you'd group it with a damaging effect like the Scion attack. But that is clearly not its purpose, as it is primarily a crowd control power that deals very little damage when compared to powers like Warp or Reave. Finally, the sentence in question is poorly phrased and lacks the sort of polish you'd expect to find on this wiki. And since the information in contains is erroneous, correcting the grammar serves no purpose when it should simply be deleted. [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 14:07, September 30, 2010 (UTC) :::And now you are picking apart semantics with the color. I have to say that I stand by my defense of the Codex by saying that it does prevent regen for a short time, just like a Scion's shockwave. While no the Scion's attack doesn't sennd Shepard ot the Squad ragdolling around, niether did Throw, Lift, or any other biotic attack in ME or ME@ so that is kind of mute. Also ntoe that Tela's shockwave doesn't send Shepard or the squad floying so should we remove that from her page as a power, no because it's accurate. You have yet to convince me that removing a statment saying that they are similar but with differeneses is valid remoal of information. The article says they are similar, but have differenses and I fail to see what is the problem with that. Lancer1289 14:44, September 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::I only mentioned color because it is a difference. If they used exactly the same visual effect we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. And where are you getting the idea that Biotic Shockwave prevents regeneration for a short time? It doesn't. It deals minor damage. If minor damage is synonymous with preventing regeneration, then wouldn't the M-3 Predator be similar to the Scion's attack as well? Or Inferno Grenade? Or any weapon, attack, or effect that deals damage? You're absolutely right that the Scion's attack will not ragdoll Shepard. And you're right that there are no abilities in ME2 that cause this effect, like I already pointed out. However, the enemy equivalent of ragdolling Shepard is generally a stagger. Take the Biotic Shockwave for example. When players use it on undefended enemies, the enemies will ragdoll around. When the Shadow Broker's Assassin uses Shockwave on Shepard, he will be forced out of cover in a stagger effect. The Scion's attack doesn't feature this crowd control effect, making it inherently dissimilar to Biotic Shockwave, even the enemy version. Although I can see justification for a comment saying that the pattern of bursts in Shockwave is similar to the Scion's attack, I don't think we need to say that the two abilities are very similar. I also don't think Shockwave should be listed on the Scion page as its main attack. I mean, it links right to this article, implying that the abilities are one in the same. And don't patronize me with comments about removing it from Tela's page as well. The ability is clearly Shockwave, as we both know. I mean, Liara even names it as a Shockwave. And although Tela's Shockwave doesn't ragdoll Shepard or his squad, it does the enemy equivalent of that by causing a stagger. [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 15:03, September 30, 2010 (UTC) :::::So because they are different visually that means that they can't be the same, or simlar whatsoever? That is basically what you said. While yes the Shockwave used by the Scion is weaker than the Shockwave used by Vasir, Jack, or Shepard, when used in weak cover, it still forces Shepard out of cover and staggers Shepard and the squadmates. I can also say that it does have some crowd control abilities because if it didn't, then it would only knock one member of the squad out of cover, and I have seen it on multiple occasions knock two or all three out of cover. The abilities are similar and the article states that, and last time I checked similar =/= the same, or did the definition of similar change when I wasn't looking. The two are similar and while yes the Scion's attack is weaker, that can't be denied, I don't see any reason to remove valid content saying that they are similar. However that in no way implies they are the same, hence the word similar. Lancer1289 16:10, September 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Stop bringing up the visual qualities as if it's the only point I made. There are differences between the Incinerate used by enemy Engineers and the Incinerate used by Shepard, but they are visually identical. The same goes for Warp. And the Scion's attack does not stagger Shepard or force him out of cover. I was running around on Horizon this morning. A Scion's attack striking Shepard didn't cause me to stop or stagger. It deals damage and prevents regeneration. And since when are we debating which is stronger? I'm going to change the comment about the similarities to reflect what is actually similar about them. [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 16:36, September 30, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Um doesn't make you stop and stagger if you are out of cover? Where did that come from. Every time I've been hit with the Scion's Shockwave, and apparently a few others based on YouTube, it causes Shepard to stagger and get knocked out of cover. I brought up Visual qualities because your first sentence in the reply was "I only mentioned color because it is a difference. If they used exactly the same visual effect we probably wouldn't be having this discussion." So are you denying that you made that statement because you basically said. If the color was the same then this discussion wouldn't be happening, and that seems to be the main point of your argument, that because they are different visually, then they can't be the same. I addressed most of your other points. The attack does have crowd control abilities, as I answered twice now. I didn't address sound effects, but again that is why similar =/= the same. There are many explanations as to why the effects are different, maybe in the way they are generated perhaps? The regeneration does have similar effects because krogan and vorcha don't regen health as quickly as when hit by weapons or Incinerate, but it doesn't last as long as Warp or Reave no, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't prevent regeneration. The damage presenting by the attack is a bit more than Shockwave on lower difficulties, and once you have defenses down on higher ones, but Shockwave does do quite a bit of damage on levels three and either of the evolutions. So don't say that I only touched on visual effects, but that is what you brought up the most, so I addressed it the most. In addition, we started debating which was strong when you said, "On lower difficulties, the Biotic Shockwave might seem like it deals impressive damage and then I can see why you'd group it with a damaging effect like the Scion attack." Finally as to the Codex, there isn't a Codex entry for every power, but Shockwave could fall under Telekinesis and Distortion because it does to both, not just one. Remember things don't have to fall only within one school of thought. Lancer1289 17:04, September 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::You're right in that there is a tiny pause when Shepard is struck by the Scion's attack, but it is by no means a fully fledged stagger like Harbinger's sphere attack, Tela's Shockwave, or similar enemy crowd control effects. Consult this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnbOYPwLNqQ#t=1m02s to see the stutter effect when struck by a Scion's attack. This might pop you out of cover if you're struck from behind like when the two Scion's hit you from different angles on the Collector Ship. But it's not going to pop you up out of cover if the Scion is directly in front of you. Your analysis of enemy regeneration is flawed, though. Weapons will deal damage but krogan and vorcha will quickly regenerate health. Warp, Reave, Incinerate, Incendiary Ammo, and other fire effects will completely stop their regeneration, not delay it. I have never witnessed regeneration return. But that's neither here nor there. What matters is that Shockwave does not stop regeneration and that any mention of it being a warp effect is fictitious. The Scion's attack is spelled out as a warp effect, though. In the end, I don't see many similarities. They both follow an intermittent attack pattern. They both travel along the ground. They are both Biotics. I mean, the Scion attack kind of pierces cover, but not really. It continues beyond it like Shockwave, but will not hit foes in proper cover even if it passes beyond them. [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 17:22, September 30, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Granted it isn't as powerful, but you still stop running and that leaves you venerable to attack. Harbinger’s attack is much more powerful, but the Scion's attack about not breaching cover is mentioned in the Capabilities section of the Scion page. However there are many similarities which is enough to justify it saying that the attack is similar, but not the same again hence the word similar. And again similar =/= the same. They have quite a few things in common, and while they have different effects, I still fail to see a reason for removing it from the Scion page, or to not mention it here. Lancer1289 17:36, September 30, 2010 (UTC) Trow vs Shockwave I was wondering aren't trow and shockwave very similar? I dindt use them in mass effect 2 but plan on using them in mass effect 3. I remember I really liked trow back in mass effect 1, but I ve never really used shockwace. What do you think is better? Shockwave is good for hitting several at once, but it has less control (you can't angle it in the same way) and Throw has greater range. Either can be used as detonators in biotic explosions. :This belongs in the forums. Talk pages are only to do with the page. Phylarion 09:51, May 21, 2012 (UTC) Hitting and Triggering Issue? I've just started playing the Krogan Shaman Adept and was wondering several times about biotic explosions not being triggered or misses by the shockwave. Sometimes shockwave seems to have no effect on single enemies nor did it trigger biotic explosions (source power: Warp) in some cases. It also seems to miss enemies standing right in front of me. Anyone who can confirm one of these issues? If something applies to be true, it might be noted under the skill and eventually affected classes. EDIT: Just ran another few rounds. Missed a whole bunch of swarmers, even though the shockwave almost traveled right through them. Also had additional misses of enemies right in front of me. It also seems that shockwave looses power after hitting the first target, as I repeatedly recognized enemies simpley receiving damage instead of getting knocked off / back. In case of the misses: Could there be a maximum number of targets affected? But even though, it sometimes misses regardless of hit order.THEINFERNALVerjigorm (talk) 14:32, EDIT: 21:51, November 29, 2012 (UTC) Just found a thread in the german forum, which states that on PCs the fourth grade evolution which increases the shockwave radius causes the shockwave to only occasionally work, which would explain a lot of my issues. Shouldn't this be stated in the shockwave's notes? THEINFERNALVerjigorm (talk) 05:47, November 30, 2012 (UTC) The Source for the shockwave bug is described in this thread by Mgamerz (and earlier by Cyonan): http://forum.bioware.com/topic/503061-shockwave-radius-bug-possible-partial-frame-rate-related-fix/ -Mgamerz